Talk:James Johnson
Johnson had nothing to do with the Tanker Incident Sorry to disappoint you. Cheers! 11:52, May 25, 2010 (UTC) http://natmal.net/mgsdb/?enc&id=43 :I agree, he wasn't directly involved, he was simply a pawn. I never suggested he was responsible for the theft. Also, the US President is often called "Mr President" in real life, even Solidus is called this by Ocelot in MGS1. --Bluerock 12:46, May 25, 2010 (UTC) ::Yes, I know that. I live in Florida. And yes, you are suggesting he was the guy Ocelot was talking to. He was not. He was talking to The Patriots. It is made perfectly clear that Johnson was not involved when he talked to Raiden. If it wasn't Zero, it was another member of The Patriots. That much is certain.-- 13:43, May 25, 2010 (UTC) :::Sorry to butt-in, but I have an opinion about this too. Actually in the game and database, it is never specified who Ocelot was talking to. And obviously in isn`t "perfectly clear", or we wouldn't have this discussion. Now I personally believe that it is made intentionally unclear who he is refering to. But even though James Johnson was a pawn (and so was George Sears, and he orchestrated the Shadow Moses Incident and the Big Shell Incident), when Ocelot talked to "Mr President", it's possible that he may have been talking to the President (James Johnson). Besides, Johnson may have been following the Patriot's orders during the Tanker Incident. - Marcaurelix ::::It's not made clear that it's Johnson either. He never says that he was involved in the theft of Metal Gear Ray. All he says is that it was Ocelot who stole it. -- 14:22, May 25, 2010 (UTC) :::::That's why I left the trivia section ambigous and neutral. Due to the ambigousity of the game in general. Can you stop making insinuations about who stole the Metal Gear. BTW, our edit war is pointless. - Marcaurelix :::::Can you please stop complaining and move on. -- 14:32, May 25, 2010 (UTC) ::::::Now I seriously doubt that Ocelot was talking to Zero. - Marcaurelix :::::::And I seriously don't care what you think. It's either him or another member of The Patriots. Zero was the head of The Patriots and The Patriots were the ones who ruled the country, hence, Mister President. But I was kind enough to accept your version too. -- 14:32, May 25, 2010 (UTC) ::::::::I will concede that there was a posibility that he was talking to the Patriots themselves. Now, you were kind enough about what? When Ocelot was talking to a Mr. President, there is a slight posibility that he was talking to the Mr. President himself. Not only that, but the most obvious person to consider in that moment would be President Johnson himself. In fact, there is no evidence to the contrary. All you have are speculations. - Marcaurelix :Just out of interest, why don't you think he's actually reporting to Johnson? Is it due to the retcon of Ocelot being a founding member? --Bluerock 14:49, May 25, 2010 (UTC) ::Simple, the game and MGS4 database never state or imply that Johnson was involved in the Tanker incident but it is shown that The Patriots were the ones involved. As Johnson said, The Patriots were the ones who really ruled the country so it makes sense for Ocelot to call the person on the radio, "Mister President". -- 14:56, May 25, 2010 (UTC) :::He was talking to the Patriots. But it is unknown if it was directly or through the President (as like Mr. President). I'm just saying that you should discard the posibility that he was talking to Johnson, probably under the Patriot's orders. - Marcaurelix ::::And I'm saying that you shouldn't discard the possibility that it was Zero, one of the AIs or some other guy. By the way, are you French? -- 15:11, May 25, 2010 (UTC) :::::I think you meant "you shouldn't discard". And I don't. That's why I left it ambigous. That's why I say I don't know. BTW, I'm a Spaniard. - Marcaurelix ::::::I think you meant the same thing too. Also, I'm Puerto Rican myself. -- 15:29, May 25, 2010 (UTC) :::::::Zero was in hiding at the time. It couldn't have been him. It had to be one of the AIs. They had the ability to talk like humans as we saw at the end of Sons of Liberty. --Refan33 15:33, May 25, 2010 (UTC) :Actually, the game heavily suggests it is the US President, the conversation is meant to be similar to the one Ocelot had with the President at the end of MGS1, only this time around it is Johnson. He isn't named because he hadn't even been introduced at that point in the plot. Later retcons do not change anything about this conversation. Johnson was a willing servant of the Patriots at the time, so it is logical that those doing the Patriot's bidding report to him (their head pawn). Ocelot was a founding member, but he obviously has no say in the organization, since its now run by the AIs. :Since the conversation was a relatively minor thing within the whole of the Tanker Incident, I'm not surprised the database chose not to mention it; it's no true encyclopedia by any stretch, as we well know. --Bluerock 17:55, May 25, 2010 (UTC) ::I always figured he was talking to Solidus, referring to him as "Mr. President" purely out of respect. *shrug* --Fantomas 18:52, May 25, 2010 (UTC) :Probably a lot of people thought that (including me at first), unless they were listening carefully to the Marine Commandant's speech, where it's revealed that George Sears had resigned at this point. --Bluerock 19:01, May 25, 2010 (UTC) ::That and Otacon made it clear that Solidus was in hiding at the time. It wasn't him either. Anyway, Ocelot was clearly talking to The Patriots, not Johnson. The Patriots were the real rulers, hence, Mister President. Why Bluerock won't accept that is a mystery to me. Anyway, I give up. Forget I said anything. -- 22:10, May 25, 2010 (UTC) :::It's not clear who he was talking to at all, which is why several different opinions have been posted here about it, so don't go around pretending it is. --Fantomas 00:14, May 26, 2010 (UTC) :I don't understand why Anonymous thinks that "Mr President" could not be referring to THE PRESIDENT. It doesn't make sense as an argument to say it couldn't. The only thing that is clear, is that Ocelot was working for the Patriots, not that he explicitly spoke to a full member, though Johnson could be considered a member of sorts, since he himself is working for them, despite being a figurehead. Anyway, the corresponding articles no longer state definitively that it was him, so there shouldn't be a problem now. --Bluerock 08:11, May 26, 2010 (UTC) ::Yes, and besides, whose to say that Johnson can't do a thing just because he's a Pawn? It's very likely, if not what was intended, that President Johnson may have organized the whole heist/retrieval under the Patriot's orders. I also doubt that Ocelot was talking to Major Zero when making the call. If he couldn't contact Solidus Snake due to his being in hiding, I kinda doubt Ocelot could contact Zero due to similar reasons. Not to mention Zero was either a Vegetable or coming closer to becoming one. I also doubt he was talking to JD since, technically, JD can't be called "Mr. President" due to JD not having a gender, never mind a masculine gender. Assuming he's acting under Patriot's orders, I'm pretty sure he'd see Johnson as a fellow Patriot. We already know that most of his presidency was what the Patriot's commanded. Whose to say that The Patriots didn't also tell him to organize the Tanker Heist in secret? Weedle McHairybug 20:15, May 26, 2010 (UTC) :::You're also the same person who thinks that the B&B girls survived, that Liquid really possessed Ocelot and that EVA knew that Ocelot was faking it. The Patriots were the real rulers of the country, hence, Mister President. It's never even implied that Johnson was involved. Get over it. -- 20:19, May 26, 2010 (UTC) No, it's implied to be the President, hence, Mister President. --Bluerock 20:20, May 26, 2010 (UTC) ::::Wrong, the Patriots were the real rulers, hence, Mister President. -- 20:21, May 26, 2010 (UTC) ::::::This is fucking retarded - Marcaurelix :::::::You're a pendejo. -- 20:24, May 26, 2010 (UTC) :Uh yeah, Unknown, everyone knows the Patriots are the real rulers. Doesn't mean he isn't speaking to Johnson in the slightest. --Bluerock 20:24, May 26, 2010 (UTC) ::Uh yeah, doesn't mean he was speaking to Johnson either. Anyway, the AIs had the ability to mimic genders. It impersonated Campbell and Rosemary. -- 20:25, May 26, 2010 (UTC) :The game implies its the President, so that's why its in the article. Ultimately, it says its unknown, which is in fact, the point you are arguing. --Bluerock 20:27, May 26, 2010 (UTC) ::No, it implies that it's The Patriots. That's a fact. -- 20 ::28, May 26, 2010 (UTC) :It is no fact. It is unknown. His dialogue suggests it is the president. --Bluerock 20:30, May 26, 2010 (UTC) ::No, it suggests that he was talking to The Patriots. Sorry! -- 20:31, May 26, 2010 (UTC) :Johnson is a Patriot, he is a pawn under their orders. --Bluerock 20:33, May 26, 2010 (UTC) ::No, he's not a Patriot. The real Patriots were the founders and the AIs. Try again. -- 20:34, May 26, 2010 (UTC) :The Patriots are not just the five founders, or the AIs, operating completely independently, they run an entire organization. --Bluerock 20:35, May 26, 2010 (UTC) ::Doesn't matter. It's still never implied that Johnson was the guy Ocelot was talking to or that he had any part in the Tanker incident.-- 20:37, May 26, 2010 (UTC) :::I don't understand your problem with the text. It doesn't insinate anything; it isn't in favor of the Patriots or Johnson - Marcaurelix :And, I don't understand why Anonymous can't accept that it may have been Johnson. He calls him "Mr President" for God's sake, an argument that Anonymous has bizarrely used for himself. Anyone, listening to that dialogue would assume it to be the President, that's why he's mentioned as a possibility in the article, rather than having no mention at all. --Bluerock 20:44, May 26, 2010 (UTC) ::Yes, but then it's later revealed that The Patriots are the real rulers. It's called a red herring. -- 20:49, May 26, 2010 (UTC) ::I don't understand your problem with the text. It doesn't insinate anything; it isn't in favor of the Patriots or Johnson - Marcaurelix :::Then you shouldn't have a problem with not having it in there either.-- 20:49, May 26, 2010 (UTC) :Once again, doesn't change a thing, why can't you accept he may be reporting to the Patriots via Johnson. The Patriots involvement is NOT in question, yet you seem to think it is. --Bluerock 20:53, May 26, 2010 (UTC) ::You still haven't answered our questions? - Marcaurelix :::I already did, silly. Nothing in the game proves that it was Johnson. -- 21:10, May 26, 2010 (UTC) :And again, nothing disproves it. Try again. --Bluerock 21:12, May 26, 2010 (UTC) ::Besides, Ocelot saying Mr President is actually an argument against you - Marcuarelix :::But again, the game proved that Johnson was not involved and that it was only the Patriots. Try again. And they were the real rulers, not Johnson, hence, Mr President. Try again. -- 21:14, May 26, 2010 (UTC) :So, you think Mr President could in no way possibly refer to, oh I dont know, THE PRESIDENT! Try again. --Bluerock 21:16, May 26, 2010 (UTC) ::No, because he was NOT the real ruler. The Patriots were. Johnson pointed that out. Try again.-- 21:17, May 26, 2010 (UTC) Dude, nothing in the game proves that Johnson wasn’t involved. - Marcaurelix :He doesn't need to speak to the ruler. That is your assumption, Anonymous. Try again. --Bluerock 21:21, May 26, 2010 (UTC)